I don't know, but I sure miss his charm.
~ Faites-vous des amis prompts à vous censurer.
drew sagan
JoinedPosts by drew sagan
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52
If You Leave The Organization Where Else Must You Go?
by minimus init seems the watchtower leaders believe that if you were to think about leaving the organization (and listen to "apostates") that you must have a place to go in return.
they feel you must have something, if you were to not accept the organization.
you need hope and belief in something.
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drew sagan
This is a strawman argument of the Governing Body. They already assume that they have proved every other religion false, primarily because they say so. And of course, they use the verse attributed to Jesus, where he was really referring to himself, not a group.
Technically speaking, I think this is best categorized as a "false dilemma" argument. Only two options are presented to a person, that of being in "the truth" or being out inside Satans world. There are in fact many other opinions and ideas, but these are not considered. Straw man is more of a diversionary tactic.
~ Drew, of the "i'm not trying to be a jerk but can't help myself" class
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RECORDED...FROM THE HORSE'S MOUTH, THE GB SAYS APOSTATES HAVE NOTHING TO OFFER.
by whereami inhas anyone heard this nonsense before?
see reinea, this is proof that your masters don't want you "debating" on these god awful forums.
but don't worry they're praying for ya .
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drew sagan
Great clip!
Who recorded it? Which GB member?
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37
Write letters to citizens of Warwick New York exposing the Watchtower org.
by koolaid-man ina recent newspaper article in the warwick new york newspaper uncovers the plans for the watchtower society to move out of brooklyn new york and set up their world headquarters in warwick.
http://www.strausnews.com/articles/2009/11/25/warwick_advertiser/news/2.txt the citizens of warwick and the surrounding communities should be exposed to what the watchtower society really is, a dangerous and destructive cult!
note in the newspapers link comments made at the end of the article from concerned readers warning the community to really think twice before permitting the watchtower org.
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drew sagan
Around here, any planning application has to stand or fall on the building that is planned and environmental impact . Any suggestion that the authorities were swayed by their opinion of the religion, would be great grounds for a successful planning appeal and legal challenge by Brooklyn.
Correct
To be specific, there is a United States federal law that provides some protections for religious organizations attempting to develop property. Titled the "Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act" (RLUIPA), the statute seemingly limits the ability of municipal governments to enact zoning laws that restrict religious land development (something that currently is being challenged I believe). Any zoning ordinance regulating religious buildlings that is reviewed by a court will trigger "strict scrutiny" (most rigorous form of judicial review in the US) whether it is actually discrimintory or not.
This law has plenty of flaws, but it goes to great lenghts to protect religious land use. If anybody in Warwick's government made a decision based upon the claimed "dangerous practices of the Watchtower society" as described by ex-jws on the internet they would be up shit creek without a paddle.~ Drew, of the "Cogita ante salis" class
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Write letters to citizens of Warwick New York exposing the Watchtower org.
by koolaid-man ina recent newspaper article in the warwick new york newspaper uncovers the plans for the watchtower society to move out of brooklyn new york and set up their world headquarters in warwick.
http://www.strausnews.com/articles/2009/11/25/warwick_advertiser/news/2.txt the citizens of warwick and the surrounding communities should be exposed to what the watchtower society really is, a dangerous and destructive cult!
note in the newspapers link comments made at the end of the article from concerned readers warning the community to really think twice before permitting the watchtower org.
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drew sagan
What good is it to the city? The city is not gonna collect a dime in taxes?
The city will have a (probably contaminated) vacaent property cleaned and redeveloped. Visitors to this facility (as well as the individual JWs) have the potential to contribute to the local economy (hotel rooms, resturants, and other local "domestic" businesses). I know that many JWs at Brooklyn still spend money in the local economy, albeit not a large amount. This could actually have greater impact on a small town like Warwick.
Lots of towns across the country provide incentives for non-profits to enter an area. The difference here is that very little jobs will become available to the local economy. But for a town that is out of options, they will take what they can get.
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Anti-Mormonism and the Newfangled Countercult Culture
by drew sagan inhttp://mi.byu.edu/publications/review/?vol=10&num=1&id=282.
i found this article amusing for a variety of reasons and though i would share.. many of us here are faimliar with the "countercult ministries" that seem to be popular within evangelical christianity.
these organizations make videos, books and websites, as well as hold seminars and conventions about how to "witness" to cult groups.. during my own exit from the watchtower i came in contact with a number of these organizaitons.
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drew sagan
Any essay that has as its ultimate end the persuastion to a different way of thinking is propaganda, not an expose.
Of course. I do think that the idea of collecting research regarding countercult organizations, especially those within fundamentlist christianity, is an interesting area of study. These groups produce a lot of media regarding groups like mormons and jws, and a good bit is of poor quality (to say the least!). I have come to feel that a good number of countercultists seem to fixated on developing their own personal identity as a exposer of injustice and truth. In effect, the development of a certain countercult personality arises (such as the case with Walter Martin and many others). In fact, the conuter-cult community has its own self rewarding structure, in which individuals speak at evens and are given prominance for their exposes. Books are available for sale, and authors give long winded speaches about their "research" and advocacy.
Another point. I tend to give this mormon a little slack, being that the only people interested in "countercult research" are those being attacked by countercult groups. Even though his own nonsense is littered throughout, he's done research that nobody else is really willing or interested in doing.
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Write letters to citizens of Warwick New York exposing the Watchtower org.
by koolaid-man ina recent newspaper article in the warwick new york newspaper uncovers the plans for the watchtower society to move out of brooklyn new york and set up their world headquarters in warwick.
http://www.strausnews.com/articles/2009/11/25/warwick_advertiser/news/2.txt the citizens of warwick and the surrounding communities should be exposed to what the watchtower society really is, a dangerous and destructive cult!
note in the newspapers link comments made at the end of the article from concerned readers warning the community to really think twice before permitting the watchtower org.
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drew sagan
Jeff,
You may find my (completely ignored) post regarding a mormon critique of the "counter-cult culture" of interest.
While heavily biased and absurd extrememly abusrd in its own way (see my post for more), the article raises a number of interesting points that only a group being criticized by countercultists would care to address. The idea of analyzing the "countercult culture" is interesting in and of itself and is probably worth exploring on its own merit.
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37
Write letters to citizens of Warwick New York exposing the Watchtower org.
by koolaid-man ina recent newspaper article in the warwick new york newspaper uncovers the plans for the watchtower society to move out of brooklyn new york and set up their world headquarters in warwick.
http://www.strausnews.com/articles/2009/11/25/warwick_advertiser/news/2.txt the citizens of warwick and the surrounding communities should be exposed to what the watchtower society really is, a dangerous and destructive cult!
note in the newspapers link comments made at the end of the article from concerned readers warning the community to really think twice before permitting the watchtower org.
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drew sagan
Of all the comments on that article made by individuals, this one actually does warrent some attention:
" I wonder how a "religious" organization has the money to purchase 4 five story buildings? This is all tax free use of the property so Orange County residents are subsidizing this project. It would be one thing if this project was for an existing population here but this is a project that does not produce long term jobs for the residents already living here. I would not be surprised if this project contains a dirty enviroment business like printing.They should relocate to Queens which is URBAN and which has miles of industrial use empty buildings!
Why "develop" out here? Are they being recruited by our local government agencies?This person has brought up a legitimate point, but one that does not single out the Watchtower as the only entity deserving attention. The Watchtower is positioned to benefit from current norms in land development laws and incentives. This is similiar to how tax dollars are used to build sports stadiums, convention centers and private business facilities. Do public investments into private interests really bring about economic change? Are they "worth the money"? This more important discussion is bigger than the Watchtower, which is simply one entity of many taking advantage of what local and state governments are offereing land developers.
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37
Write letters to citizens of Warwick New York exposing the Watchtower org.
by koolaid-man ina recent newspaper article in the warwick new york newspaper uncovers the plans for the watchtower society to move out of brooklyn new york and set up their world headquarters in warwick.
http://www.strausnews.com/articles/2009/11/25/warwick_advertiser/news/2.txt the citizens of warwick and the surrounding communities should be exposed to what the watchtower society really is, a dangerous and destructive cult!
note in the newspapers link comments made at the end of the article from concerned readers warning the community to really think twice before permitting the watchtower org.
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drew sagan
To believe that somehow people on this message board will organize to prevent the Watchtower from moving to a new location is beyond satire.
The proposed property is currently one of many undeveloped brownfield sites that littler the north eastern rust belt. The economic and enviromental benifits derived from the Watchtower developing this plan will take precendent no matter what you say. While the article mentions concerns from the local school board regarding kids attending their schools without their parents paying property taxes (I infer this from the article, it is not explicitly stated), the fact that JWs with kids must live off of the WTS campus likely makes this point null.
" The citizens of Warwick and surrounding areas should be aware of how dangerous and destructive the Watchtower Org. is. This Organization is more of a threat to this country then most people realize. The Watchtower Organization should be ashamed of themselves for breaking up families, causing the deaths of untold thousands because of their no blood transfusions policies,pushing people to suicide by instilling so much guilt in them and hiding child molesters. For more information go to our website www.sixscreensofthewatchtower.com "
Your extremely generalized and exaggerated fear mongering regarding the Watchtower Society is laughable.The WTS is primarily "dangerous" (a term I use with great hesitancy) to individual members of the faith, not society as a whole. While it could be counterargued that society is threatened because of door-to-door proselytizing (in which people are converted to JWs), I fail to see how this specifically relates to the Warwick community. JW's will continue to engage society as a whole regardless of their HQ location.
On a more practical level, a number of issues could be made regarding how the city will effecitvly manage the increased level of public services needed to facilitate a new Watchtower campus. However, many states provide 10-15 year (or more!) tax abatements for redeveloped brownfields. This being the case, the fact that the Watchtower is non-profit changes very little.
This is property development. Nothing more, nothing less.
Don't get me wrong, I always appreciate your ability to venture off into the absurd. Sixscreensofthewatchtower.com © , with its blood dripping fonts and 80's horror movie soundrack is a great form of comedic entertainment.
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isn`t islam part of babylon the great?
by Adrianoblue infunny enough, i never read about verbal attacs against this agressive, fascistic religion in the wt!.
how come?
just because the roman catholics are their favorite enemies?.
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drew sagan
I remember Ray Franz basically said the Watchtower markets itself to people who already have Christian beliefs. In places where non-christian reilgions are dominant the JWs do not have as much success. The Watchtower puts more emphasis on discounting western christianity as evil and vile, because its message is geared towards people who already have experience with these institutions.